Neurological Cases

My 13.5yr old lab had a potential neuro episode of some sort a week ago.  She woke me up panting, unable to stand (which happens sometimes given her arthritis and how she lays and floor surface type, etc), sitting upright but back legs trembling (pretty normal for her since her FCE three years ago-neuro said it is nerves firing), and eyes twitching (I didn’t make note of the pattern because unfortunately I didn’t know that mattered).  Within an hour and a half she was able to walk though she was a little wobbly.  Has been completely normal since and no more episodes.  She had an FCE three years ago that paralyzed all four legs and she recovered from that with only a slight limp.   She goes to a chiropractor monthly also.  My initial thought was she has a pinched nerve, or her legs are asleep etc.  My vet thinks it was a seizure and warned me at her age statistically she’s at high risk of it being brain tumor related which makes me sick even thinking it could be such but she said without an MRI we can’t be sure. She didn’t think it was vestibular since she recovered quickly and not a stroke since nothing altered post episode, she’s the same as she was prior.  I’m waiting on her T4 results.  I’ve read to not do MRI on neuro cases bc of potential risks with anesthesia.  Attaching her CMP & CBC.  Thoughts??

Dr. Steve's Advice -  I've seen vestibular episodes be fleeting. I would probably suggest you try Halscion (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Halscion-85g-p647327436) since it is so effective at treating vestibular disease, is frequently effective at treating seizures, and contains my favourite formula for treating brain tumors (which vets seem to want to diagnose all the time but are exceedingly rare). I would give it a try and see if it helps. The history of FCE suggests it will likely work and may help give her some strength.

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It’s MooMoo the Havanese boy again! Hope you’re well! We’d really appreciate your opinion from what you can tell based on these videos. From Jan - Oct 2022, he’d randomly have an episode like this (1st Video). Our primary vet thought they were just muscle spasms. 

Then since 11/02/2022, he’s been having a “progressive” version of the above (2nd Video) right around the same time he was dealing with a couple of tick issues. (Positive exposure to Anaplasma but negative PCR result in mid-Nov.) Another engorged tick with Lyme was found on 11/4 but we didn’t do Lyme C6 then per your advice; instead had him on Voltrex and just monitored symptoms. He’s been asymptomatic except for these random episodes. Primary vet initially thought perhaps they were lameness but now she doesn’t think so. Fast forward to last month Lyme C6 test level was 80 hence vet suggested doxycycline despite not knowing what these episodes represent. 

Characteristics besides what can be observed in the videos: no specific triggers/timing, frequency ranges from few times a month to sometimes only once every few months, resolves on its own within a few minutes as if nothing had happened and no abnormal behaviors pre/post episode. Always fully conscious during an “attack”. Pupils would become diluted and subsides upon recovery during the “intense” version. 

We saw another vet for a second opinion last week and she suggested the possibility of Idiopathic Epilepsy. She didn’t think he needs treatment for Lyme since “the dot on the Snap 4DX was very faint”, plus he’s asymptomatic. 

Physical exams as well as results of blood work & urinalysis & fecal last month were fine (except for elevated Eosinophils at 1,494). MooMoo is 7yrs old on a gently cooked diet.

After doing some online research I’m now convinced that he has
Paroxysmal Dyskinesia (PD) and not idiopathic epilepsy given the absent of autonomic signs. What do you think? If so, any supplements that may help with his condition? 

Given the timing of events; could these episodes be neurological symptom caused by Anaplasma/Lyme infections if you don’t think they are PD? (Assuming that 1st & 2nd video aren’t related? And even if he never displayed any common symptoms of the infection?) 

Thank you so much for your time Dr Steve! 

P.S. Last video is the most recent that happened last week for your reference.

Dr. Steve's Advice - when you'd asked about the quantitative test, I assumed your dog was 100% asymptomatic. Lyme can induce neurological symptoms, though, so since this was going on sporadically, then use of doxycycline as a one time treatment doesn't seem inappropriate. If it works to relieve these symptoms, fantastic. If not, then other tests should be run.

The high eosinophil reading is unusual. Voltrex usually resolves that. If it has become elevated at the same time as these choreiform movements developed, then you'd have to wonder even about a muscle parasite being involved. If you have fed raw pork at all, ask your vet to try treating for Trichinella, an intramuscular parasite from that meat in particular. Even if you haven't used raw pork, get a fecal done, in case this is some weird instance of larval migrans.

Otherwise, the diagnosis you came up with is as good as any, but it is only descriptive. There is no particular treatment specific to it. I think that if there was no parasite and if doxycycline didn't help, I'd suggest treating this as a kind of dyskinesia or psychomotor seizure. I'd recommend two things for that, both from Kan Essentials: Calm Repose, and also Liver Support Formula. The two are synergistic to resolve this kind of problem. Liver Support Formula is a muscle relaxant and helps resolve muscle inflammation. It also nourishes the Blood from a Chinese medical point of view. Blood deficiency can cause types of mild seizure where animals are conscious but bizarre things are happening. Calm Repose treats that.

You can source both of those formulas from Aleksandra Topic by following the instructions in her post at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158575954706282/posts/1420037418560133/

Hope that helps!

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Seems like small seizures. 

Happens when he lies down. Its not like JUST before he falls asleep, it can happen as soon as he lays his head down. 

NEVER happens when he sits, walks, stands etc. 

Feel its seizures, but if you see both videos, in one i abort the seizure by calling his name. As I read,  if a seizure, thats not possible. 

Vet says they are strokes. And he will have a huge one sometime. Tomorrow or in two yrs. Dont know. 

But, strokes would make him lose balance or make him behave diffrent, since he can have these 20 times a day. 

20 strokes a day would in my opinion leave a mark. But he has no signs of any change 

It can be a week with almost none, and a week with alot. You can see his ears twitch, his head rises and I saw the other day when he was on his side that his leg also was "affected" . I cant say for sure, but I feel his breathing also 

Any tips to what this may be?

Dr. Steve's Advice - if it's the ear twitching etc. that you're talking about, that is unlikely to be a stroke. Strokes produce pretty catastrophic loss of balance in animals. This looks more like a focal seizure, if anything. As long as seizures stay focal, they are not very consequential.

Nonetheless, there are many basic herbal formulas that could help, but I don't know what you have access to. If there is a veterinarian nearby that does acupuncture, that is a good place to start, as they may be able to improve it for you and have access to those formulas.

Hope that helps

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I have a 5 year old toy poodle that I got when she was 3.  Shortly after getting her, she started to have seizures. She would have 1 or 2 seizures within 48 hours, approximately once every 6 weeks. I had read a study on the homeopathic belladonna, and the day I gave it to my dog, she clustered 7 or 8 times and took her to emergency. After getting that under control, we tried Tian Ma Go Teng Yin.  She was doing OK on that, especially after she had her infected teeth removed.  She stopped having clusters and seizures were milder and more spaced out, going as long as 3 months.  But then they started getting frequent again (every few weeks) so we stopped Tian Ma Go Teng Yin and tried Di Tan Tang.  On Di Tan Tang, her seizures seem to be less severe but the frequency hadn't lessened. Xiao Yao San was recently added to the Di Tan Tang but had another seizure a few days after starting it. Perhaps that wasn't enough time to get into her system so we're still watching and waiting.  According to her old vet records with the previous owner, she started having seizures within hours of vaccines and flea treatments. Penny loves to eat, is quiet, low energy and loves the sun.  Diagnosis of idiopathic epilepsy and otherwise healthy except her eyes tear up and get gunky profusely but sporadically. Thank you in advance for any guidance on food, supplements, or other natural herbs that might work for her.

 Dr. Steve's Advice - if Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin (Calm Repose, Gastrodia and Uncaria) worked well for her seizures, then it confirms she is Blood or Yin deficient. Di Tan Tang is a drying formula and can actually make Blood deficiency worse. I would guess that Xiao Yao San paired with Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin makes more sense, or even Yi Guan Jian with Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin. YGJ has calming herbs for the Heart and Shen. 

The other thing I would get is homeopathic Ignatia (sold as Iamara if you're in Canada). Use 30C strength and give it a couple of times a day for a few days, then maybe just once a day for the remainder of the week. It's a curious thing, but seizures that come on after a dog has changed homes seem to respond well to it.

Let us know if that helps

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Shade, 3 yr Australian Shepherd presented with sudden Ataxia and fever after I returned home from a trip.  Traveled to a neurologist within 2 days, who called her a mystery as all vitals were good. 

He doubted Encephalitis, however I agreed to the Spinal Tap which to his surprise, came back positive.   We opted to do all the test to determine cause, all negative.  Just a side note....we had horrible winds for a solid 3 months prior to onset, not sure if something there caused this.  We live extremely rural, farmland.

Originally this was idiopathic, now DX as Mediated Autoimmune.  She has been and currently raw fed.

She is MDR1...one gene. All genetics great!

On 10Mg..Prednisone BID which is making her crazy   She weighs around 43 pounds.  Starting Atopica next week and tapering Prednisone. 

Supplemented with Adored Beast Chaga drops, Love Bug Probitics, Turmeric a few times a week. Was on Mushroom support as well for 30 days along with 2 types of antibiotics.   She responded quickly!

Any advice or other supplements would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you so much for this page!!  She is a intact female, no other health problems ever.  This was a shocker!

Of course the million dollar question...anyway to know when this is resolved or go the full 9M?

Dr. Steve's Advice - I'm glad your dog responded quickly. For immune mediated CNS disease like meningitis and meningoencephalitis, I use a herbal formula called Augmented Bupleurum and Kudzu Clearing Formula, which you can often find on Amazon if your vet doesn't want to carry it. I've found it to work as well as immune suppressant drugs and to be curative.

I would say if you were to try it, start the herbs then after 5 to 7 days, instead of switching to Atopica, begin gradually weaning off the pred. If you get off the pred with no symptom recurrence, then that is promising, but I'd still continue the herbs for a month or so before trying to reduce their dose (if you want to - some people just keep going at a low dose). 

If you can't get off the pred, then those herbs aren't going to work for you, and you'd go with the Atopica. I've never seen that happen, though.

Note that it's been my experience this kind of thing can sometimes happen every six months, and for sure is a very common problem in August. I'd make sure to have some of the herb around next July and just start her on it prophylactically until late September. I'd do the same the following year. If it doesn't show up again in a couple of years, then you're probably free of it.

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Hi Dr. Steve, found your page after my 2 yr old, 22 lb dachshund chihuahua super-mutt rescue pup was just diagnosed with immune-mediated meningitis last week after spinal tap and bloodwork (after months of no diagnosis, couldn't figure it out as his 'episodes' I.e. of screaming In pain, neck hunched over, were sporadic and at random). His bloodwork (via neurologist) also confirmed eosinophilia (1.4K/uL), hepatocellular pattern with ALT 1142 U/L, AST 56 U/L, ALP 433 U/L. He's been on 20mg prednisone, slowly tapering to 15mg on Day 8 (in a few days). He goes back to neuro In 3 weeks for re-check. After reading a bunch of your recommendations in this forum for other dogs, I ordered the Kan Herbs Bupleurum and Kudzu clearing tabs. These should arrive any day now. I am hoping he is not on pred forever. The side effects are really horrible on him.

1/ Can the Kudzu tablets be taken with prednisone? How often should I be giving It to him? According to the chart, he is around 1.5 tablets a day?

2/ What other anti-inflamatory supplements and/or foods should I be giving him with the Tablets?

3/ He is currently on Nutrisource kibble but am looking for a better approach to make him healthy. I was looking Into Farmers Dog or JustFoodForDogs. What Is your guidance here?

Thank you so much, and am so glad I found your page.

Dr. Steve's Advice - The Bupleurum and Kudzu dose you looked up is to be given twice daily. There is room to increase it if it is helping but you weren't able to decrease the pred. A real food diet like the ones you were considering should be helpful as well at reducing the inflammation. A probiotic should be added, such as Lactobacillus or Bacteroides. The probiotic will need a fermented carb and soluble fiber source to thrive, so make sure maybe 1/6 o the food is fruit, cooked grain, beans, or vegetables of some type.Hopefully your dog is doing better! If he still has bouts of neck pain, please find a veterinary chiropractor to check the atlas bone in his neck. Fixations there can produce symptoms mistaken for meningitis.

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