Chronic Disc Disease

My newest foster, Bissmar, became paralyzed Dec 2020.  One day he just woke up and was unable to walk, defecate, or urinate. He was a paraplegic from his waist down. His back legs were completely limp.  The day before we had taken him for a walk and he was totally fine.

We took him to urgent care and he immediately went on steroids and several other conventional medications and nothing helped.  For the next 3 months, we had to express his bladder every few hours, he defecated all over himself, and wheeled around in a wheelchair, and slept a lot. We ALL felt defeated.

After 3 months of no improvement and complete atrophy of his legs, along came Dr. Steve Marsden.  He just started volunteering for the same organization as Bissmar was in, and Dr. Steve recommended that we try some herbs that are known to promote blood flow in the spine and reduce inflammation, so the spine will heal itself. We also started him on a real food diet that Dr. Steve recommended and he also started chiropractic and acupuncture treatments on Bissmar.

The very next day after starting the herbs (aka Lumbrex), Bissmar started moving his legs a tiny bit. It was a freaking miracle!! We were shocked and thought we might be imagining things.  It just happened that we had taken a video of him a couple days before in his wheelchair and he was just dragging his back legs around.  So we were able to compare videos right before and the day after taking the herbs.  We weren’t imagining anything! His little legs were actually lifting for the first time in 3 months. I’ve included some before and after videos.

For the next 4 months we increased his physical therapy and manual manipulation, while steadily giving him the herbs (Lumbrex) from Gold Standard Herbs. By the beginning of June 2021, he was walking without his wheelchair, able to urinate and defecate, and walking on his own for short stints. By September 2021, he is completely walking on his own and even runs and chases other dogs! He still drags his back legs a tiny bit to this day but we are so happy he has his freedom back and quality of life back. We of course fell in love with Bissmar and adopted this little champion.

The first video was just before starting Lumbrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) from Gold Standard Herbs, the second video was from the day after starting Lumbrex, and the third video was taken 4 months after starting Lumbrex, a real food diet, chiropractic and acupunture treatments, and daily physical therapy.

I hope this story inspires you to believe in holistic medicine as well. Feel free to share my story.

Lina
Admin of "Ask Dr.Steve DVM"

Click on Bissmar's Picture to watch his journey.

Click here to read the whole thread.

Click here to read an article that Dr. Steve wrote about Bissmar.

My dog was recently diagnosed with Spondylosis, IVDD & severe arthritis. 

We are currently doing chiropractic adjustments, frequency therapy & we have our first acupuncture treatment tomorrow. 

I was recommended Lumbrex from another group, would this be a good option for him? Does it have any drug interactions? He is on other joint supplements & a low dose of Rimadyl. 

Thank you!

Dr. Steve's Advice - it's a great choice. Lumbrex won't adversely interact with any medications and is safe to try. If he does well, you might want to see if the Rimadyl is needed any more, since it can interfere with circulation to the spine, and that's what you need to mitigate those various pathologies you have there. I'm glad you have those physical therapies in place, too. I'm guessing your dog will rapidly improve

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This is Richard. He is 9,5 years old and for 8 years he can not walk due to vets mistake (he has something on skin and vet , don't know why, drilled and by mistake he broke one part of spine so now he has something that looks like spina bifida. Before that he was show dog)

Anyway. He can't walk, i must squeeze his blader to pee, massage his anus to poo. 

After 8 years like that it is logical his muscels are weaker so he can not drag so good as before. I guess there is nothing to make his muscels not "dying". Right?

But what i want for him is, that he would have no pains. I am sure he has pains around neck. I am massaging that area. He is also taking painkillers but i really would like to give him something that benefits him also on other areas of body.

One other thing is that he has good potentials for blader kidney infections but i must say he has checks regularly and he has no problems for now (he was lot on antibiotics at beggining till i did not learn how empty his bladder properly). So i would like to know how can I support his urinary system

And his last problem accures at pooing. Not always but often he is bleeding while pooing. Interesting is he is bleaching more often when eating food without bones parts. I would expect opposite but no, when poo is soft, he is bleeding.
I would like to support also his GI, guts , peristaltic.

I am amazed, Dr. Steve, with your suggestions, i respect from always TCM highly, i just have no access to it here in Slovenia.

But i made decision i would give it a try and find a way to help and make Richards life easier with help of it. Please, help me as i really think it is

In attachment is also Richards last blood work, 1 week old. His urine analize was clear too, but as i noticed strange smell in urine, they made also check for bacterias and he had presence of 1 bacteria, something on C, but i started with antibiotics so smell gone by now.

How can I support his health on better way than antibiotics and painkillers? I really want for him only the best.

Dr. Steve's Advice - Are there any nearby chiropractors or acupuncturists that will help your dog? Especially chiropractic can produce some immediate benefits, even after being down so long, if there is pressure on the cord. Studies have shown how chiropractic can relieve spinal cord impingement, prompting an immediate improvement in limb function and strength, so keep that in mind.

Especially make sure the chiropractor (and acupuncturist) treats the neck. Richard may well have neck fixations causing the forelimb weakness, because of how hard he has to work with his forequarters to drag his hind quarters around.

I always look for the one thing that will help most of a dog's complaints. In Richard's case, one possibility is San Ren Tang (Three Seeds Combination). I know you said Chinese herbs are hard to source, but if there are Chinese medical practitioners in your area, someone may be willing to buy the ingredients and make it for you, if you can't otherwise find it. 

Three Seeds is used in disc disease, especially where there is trouble emptying the bladder, leading to secondary bladder infections. It also treats symptoms of colitis, such as soft stool with blood.

Another formula that can resolve both the bloody soft stool and the tendency to urinary tract infections is Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. A local Chinese medical practitioner may have that one ready made on their shelf. It normalizes gut motility and boosts local immunity so your dog can better combat bacteria in the bladder.

If in doubt, both can be used together. The latter is perhaps more likely to be effective in a raw fed dog, but the former may still provide some benefits, too. It is definitely the first choice in a dog fed kibble or canned food.

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My 10 year old doxie Hero has IVDD and 5 weeks ago had a flare up. Was put on steroids and then switched to Carprofen.  He also had 10 teeth pulled last week,4 were abscess and is on gabapentin and amoxie/clav. 

He seemed to be doing ok and then A couple days ago he just lost control of his back end out of nowhere. So he’s declining:/ 

We are going in fo an MRI this am and I’m heartbroken, he is my world and want to see what natural remedies/acupuncture/chiropractic etc 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for any advice and recommendations

Dr. Steve's Advice - I'm 100% certain you can get your dog back on his feet. For sure you should seek out chiropractic. It's pretty much mandatory for treatment of chronic disc disease. Try to find someone gentle - ideally, someone who uses an Activator. Gentle adjustments help relieve point pressure on the spinal cord that obstructs the flow of nerve signals and circulation within the spinal cord. It also makes sure that all vertebrae are contributing to the movement of the spine, instead of one joint that is forced to become so hypermobile that its disc tears.

Acupuncture can help as well, by normalizing circulation to the spine that can restore its suppleness. The points that help the most are BL 40, BL 23 and BL 18 as well as perhaps KI 3. Having someone just do those few can help a lot.

As well, I've never seen a Dachsie that did not respond to Lumbrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) by Gold Standard Herbs. This is a new formula from that company but is based on a 1400 year old formula that is relied upon by veterinarians the world over for managing disc disease. It works by actively resolving the inflammation on the spinal cord surface while restoring circulation to the spinal column, halting further disc degeneration. 

Lastly, a real food diet helps greatly, since the degeneration of the spinal column is due to a vascular phenomenon called endothelial dysfunction that is induced by the feeding of a processed diet.

If you have any doubts that your dog can recover, our administrator, Lina Wang, can confirm this approach of Lumbrex, chiropractic, acupuncture and diet change works. She even has before and after videos, and it was over Bissmar's disc disease that Lina and I re-made our acquaintance. Lina also worked very hard to encourage Bissie to walk again as he was down for along time before I came along. Nevertheless, he made it, and it was based on that experience that Lina decided we should have this Facebook Group, so that others could have the same experience of seeing something get better they feared would never heal.

Click here to read the whole thread.

I adopted a dog when he was 10 and today, he's around 15-16. He is a German Shepherd/Border Collie mix.

Last August 2021, his senior blood test showed everything was within normal limits. Although he's slowly lost his hearing over the past year. 

Six months later, I decided to give him a full dental cleaning and the new blood tests showed that he may have hypothyroidism with elevated liver enzymes. We started him on thyrotabs and while his levels are still a bit low, it's now within normal limits. However, a few months before this dental cleaning, he started to slow down a lot - mostly due to his very weak hind legs. He can't go up the stairs anymore. 

He currently takes: 

Thyro-tab (twice a day on an empty stomach)
CBD oil (minimum 4 hours after/before thyrotabs)
High quality wet canned foods only
Cosequin
Fortiflora Probiotics
Clay Bentonite
Ubiquinol
Omega 3 Fish Oil
Green Lipped Mussel Powder
Vital Proteins - Collagen Powder
Milk Thistle (for 6 months and recently stopped

He is now losing the ability to hold in his feces/urine about 25% of the time (getting worse). And he also seems very depressed. He eats/drinks well but he never wags his tail for us anymore. Anything else I can do for his collapsing back legs and fecal incontinence? And overall happiness? (He's not in physical pain...he has 24/7 access to a large yard and we walk him 2+ times a day)

Thank you!

Dr. Steve's Advice - the most prompt improvement might be seen from a visit to a chiropractor. Try to find someone in your area who can see him. The incontinence and hind end weakness are likely coming from the same place - nerve impingement due to vertebral fixations (i.e., progressive stiffness) in your dog's low back. Acupuncture and chiropractic can produce benefits within hours in these cases.

A herbal formula that can help improve circulation to restore suppleness to the low back so that nerves don't keep getting pinched is Lumbrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) by Gold Standard Herbs. As long as the stools aren't messy, mucousy, or bloody, then the formula is likely to help and will make sure you get as much bang for your buck out of the visits to the chiropractor and acupuncturist. It will likely also help slow or even partially reverse the hearing loss.

Lastly, assuming all the above is correct, a diet change will also help prevent relapses. Processed diets (which include canned foods) cause declines in peripheral circulation that allow the spine to get stiff and the hind limbs to receive too little blood supply. Any real food diet will help slowly reverse this tendency and, along with the Lumbrex, revitalize your dog. You can even make your own, per the recipe pinned to the top of this page.

Hope that helps!

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My very spunky 13 yr old Prada had an acute back/spinal cord injury friday. 

She has arthritis in her back but was not on any type of meds for it as she was seemingly moving around very well! 

Friday something happened with my other dog and her and she lost feeling/movement in her back legs. Went to the ER, she was very shocky at first but they were able to stabilize her. Xrays were negative for fracture. 

At first she needed to have her bladder expressed but now she periodically go on her own and has anal tone but no use of back legs. 

I am cautiously hopeful that this is just severe inflammation but a spinal cord injury cannot be ruled out. 

She is home and comfortable on codeine, gabapentin and galliprant. 

What else can I do to help Prada?

Dr.Steve's Advice - I would start with Voltrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Voltrex-85g-p647327438) from Gold Standard Herbs, if the hind limbs aren't moving much. It's anti-inflammatory for arthritis but also is my first choice for reducing acute spinal cord trauma enough that the nervous system senses it's safe to move the legs without risking further injury. 

Once you're seeing obvious purposeful movement and your dog is well on its way, consider Lumbrex from the same company to help actively resolve the inflammation and arthritis in the back, while reducing the likelihood of future disc rupture and acute spinal injury. 

Along with that, consider using a real fresh food diet instead of canned, kibble, or other processed foods. It's very rare for dogs to suffer repetitive spinal injury on real (cooked or raw) diets

Lastly, consider a regular visit to a doggy chiropractor to help keep the spine supple, which will help fully resolve the current episode and to help prevent future ones from happening.

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 My adorable little monster is currently taking cessorex which has been amazing for his environmental allergies. Poor Winston also has IVDD impacting his thoracic spine. They did say it is mild, so far he only occasionally is a little stiff and gets a little inflamed which makes him reasonably grouchy. I was looking at both lumbrex and voltrex because I thought it might help keep him on the right track but I wasn’t sure which would be best for him. 

Picture is Winston at Rally Obedience class having to wait his turn but he’s impatient and tries to sneak and crawl his way onto the course 

Dr. Steve's Advice -  I'm so glad your over-achiever dog is doing well on Cessorex for his skin allergies! If his disc issues seem to be centered in the low back or rump, then Voltrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Voltrex-85g-p647327438) is the better choice. If the issues are mid-back, then Lumbrex might be the better choice. That's not written in stone, though. If one doesn't work try the other, regardless where the issue is. You should be able to get relief for him. Also remember to have a chiropractor check him out as they can immediately feel better following treatment 

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 For the last couple of days Stella wasn’t walking well and today she isn’t able to use any of her 4 legs. She can’t stand sit or walk. She is alert though and is eating and drinking. So far we haven’t been able to get her to go to the bathroom today due to her weakness. The findings were her WBC count was high so they gave her a shot of long acting antibiotics, and her X-ray showed IVDD. I think there was one area on the X-ray where they pointed it out. We are just very concerned. She’s currently on meloxicam and gabapentin. She never had any recent trauma. This came out of nowhere. She is a 12 year old chihuahua with no other health issues.

 Dr. Steve's Advice -  there are just too many possibilities for a forum like this. If it's disc disease, a rehab therapist, veterinary acupuncturist and/or chiropractor should be consulted ASAP. A great formula in general for disc disease (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) by Gold Standard Herbs.

If your dog is now incapacitated, it could still be a neck chiropractic issue, but it may also be a medical one. If the antibiotics aren't kicking in, you'll need to run more tests and possibly seek a second opinion.

Once you have a firm diagnosis, I may be able to help again

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 My 12 1/2 year old Dalmatian “Dream” had an MRI done a year ago. Here are the Conclusions: Chronic left stifle arthropathy with partial cranial cruciate ligament tear and associated synovitis.

Multiple sites of chronic intervertebral disc herniation without spinal cord compression, T13-L1, L1-2, L2-3, L3-4, L4-5, and L7-S1. Right foraminal attenuation at the lumbosacral junction is secondary to lateralized bony spondylosis and there is evidence of chronic/smoldering discospondylitis.

Mild bilateral coxofemoral joint osteoarthrosis with mild right coxofemoral synovitis.

At that time, the surgeon opened up her knee and said she did not have a tear so we didn’t move forward with the surgery. Since then she has been getting rehab and on lots of supplements/herbs including Benefit Hips and Knees and Xiao Huo Luo Dan. Was previously on Harmonize the Qi. She also gets chiropractic, acupuncture and laser monthly. Her muscle is also back. Of course she is on all the joint stuff like MSM, green lipped muscle, CBD, curcumin, omegas, etc. Gets Adequan every 3 weeks. Raw fed. Only other health issues are the heart murmer with chronic valve disease; mitral and tricuspid valve regurgitation, mild, stage B1. She is doing good but I was maybe wanting to try some other things instead of the 2 herbs we’ve been giving to see if there would be better improvement. She is on Galliprant and I’d really like to try to see if we can get her off of that. May not be able to, but would like to try. Would you suggest changing the herbs to something different? I was looking at the Sublime Joint Formula that you mentioned on a different post. Thank you so much!

Dr. Steve's Advice -  there's just no doubt about it. Your dogs are gorgeous!

That is quite a laundry list of findings for Dream! Did she used to play pro football?

Seriously, I love the steps you've taken. Benefit Hips and Knees (a Minor Bupleurum derivative) is definitely the way to go. Interestingly, Gold Standard Herbs is coming out with a couple of products in the next month or two that are tailor made for Dream, but meanwhile why not give the Sublime Joint Formula a try? It dovetails nicely with what you're doing and may provide enough added relieve to allow you to get off the Galliprant or at least lower the dose.

Specifically, Sublime Joint has an added "anti-Wind invasion" effect that Voltrex in the new Gold Standard Herbs line will have. If it works well, you may be able to simplify your protocol once Voltrex comes out.

Click here to read the whole thread.

 Dr. Steve, I have a 16 MO Working Cocker Spaniel. She had one bout of lower back pain which resolved with chiro and rest. This got me thinking about the risk of IVDD as Cockers are prone to it. Would it make sense to start her on Lumbrex or another appropriate herbal product to keep her spine as healthy as possible. She has been on a raw diet from weaning. She is in agility training. She sees a chiropractic vet every month. Hoping you will have the time to respond. Thank you for your most recent live with Rodney and Dr. Becker.

Dr. Steve's Advice -  it sounds like you're doing a lot of useful things already, but Lumbrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) might help you take things to the next level. You could use a lower dose on a sort of prevention, maybe half doses twice a day, or a full dose once a day.

Voltrex from Gold Standard Herbs can be helpful for low back issues as well, and is a better choice if the chiropractor found the main issue was in her sacro-iliac joints. Maybe ask them to check their notes. If the fixations they adjusted that made your dog better were generally throughout the lumbar spine, then go with Lumbrex.

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 Hi Dr. Steve,  He is a poodle mix, approx 14 lbs and is now 8 years old. He was having back issues and he was in your mobility study with herbal supplements. You also attempted acupuncture with him but he wasn’t a very willing participant at that time. 

In November 2021 Doobi had his 2nd back surgery for herniated disc (first was in 2018 and he was attacked by a coyote in 2017). He recovered well from the 2nd surgery but surgery takes its toll on all of us. Here we are 13 months later and he’s having back problems again. I’ve started him on Rimadyl, Gabapentin and Tramadol, all of which I had on hand. 

On Wednesday we saw Dr. Lisa at Animal Healing Center. She had better luck with the acupuncture and it helped a little. She also prescribed Double P II and they did cold laser treatment while we were there. We’re going back today for another acupuncture treatment.

Thanks to Laura’s suggestion, I just ordered a cold laser mat from Amazon and expect it to be delivered today.

Even with all of this, Doobi is still in pain and is quite restless. We do not want to put him through another surgery. Do you have any other recommendations for us?

Dr. Steve's Advice -  you can read about my approach to disc disease in the posts at #dogdiscdisease. In summary, for Doobie:
- a real food diet is essential to cure the current exacerbation and stop it ever coming back. Repeat prolapses are almost unheard of in dogs that are no longer fed kibble or canned. I know Laura Oliver now makes real food at a price that competes well with diets like Honest Kitchen, etc. If you're not inclined to make it yourself and can't afford to buy it somewhere else, connect with her
- Lumbrex (https://goldstandardherbs.com/products/Original-Lumbrex-85g-p647327437) from Gold Standard Herbs is a better choice in my estimation than what you're using now, as it has more of an anti-inflammatory and pain relieving effect while still promoting a return of circulation to the back that can help heal the disc disease and restore spine suppleness. Using NSAIDs like Rimadyl is counterproductive, because they pull the blood away from the spine, causing it to become brittle again and preventing the current inflammation from healing. The formula you're using is probably too weak to fight against that vascular influence of the Rimadyl and has no actual pain relievers in it that would allow you to rely on it by itself
- Gentle chirorpactic manipulation to restore spinal mobility is also essential and usually produces immediate relief. Ask for a referral so you can get those wheels in motion. It will allow any acupuncture and laser therapy to work much more quickly

Hope this helps you out!

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 Hello again Dr. Steve!  I’m hoping that you have some ideas on an issue that has everyone on our care team a bit stumped. 

This little bean is Coco, a 4 year old French bulldog. Coco has IVDD, and had a hemilaminectomy in March 2021. She also had her soft palate reduced at the same time. Coco was surrendered to rescue at the time of her surgery. I fostered her immediately upon discharge and then foster failed and adopted her in July 2021. Since she is a rescue her history prior to her hemilaminectomy is largely unknown.  She has been on a real food raw diet since she came to me in March 2021. 

Coco has a problem where she very often regurgitates white foam. Famotadine doesn’t seem to help so we don’t think it’s a reflux issue. This behavior greatly increases when she is excited, although it will occur randomly throughout the day as well. When she was undergoing her post surgical physical therapy, the would regurgitate like this almost the entire session and it reduced some of the options of what we could do with her therapeutically. She would also do this during her acupuncture sessions with my vet or any exam really. She would also work herself up to the point of passing out like a little fainting goat. In July 2021 she was prescribed Prozac which has greatly helped reduce this behavior but has not eliminated it. Thankfully the fainting has stopped. My vet noted in her most recent exam notes that she only regurgitated twice during the exam which is “good for her”. I also took her to both private and 8 week class sessions of positive reinforcement training to help her learn to control her emotions. 

Do you have any ideas of what could be causing this?  Are there any supplements or herbs that you would recommend?  I am so fearful- especially when she is excited- that she will aspirate and develop pneumonia. Despite having had her soft palate reduced she is still a very loud breather. 

Also, if it isn’t too much trouble could you briefly explain when with IVDD it is appropriate to use Voltrex vs Lumbrex?  Coco is not my only Frenchie with IVDD, and I often foster frenchies with IVDD as well at varying stages of recovery so I want to be sure that I am using them appropriately. 

Thank you so much for your time!

Dr. Steve's Advice -  I would wonder about using Halscion to help Coco. It's not a disc formula, but it helps descend Yang and fluids from a Chinese medical perspective, resulting in a calming effect and the quelling of that nausea. I would probably try that first, especially since the product is strongly indicated for anxiety, which is viewed as the main driver of Coco's symptoms.

If Coco is still not able to stand or walk, etc., even after her surgery and her other therapies, then I would use Voltrex as well. It will back up the anxiety relief induced by Halscion, but combats the inflammation and oxidative stress associated with deeper cord injuries.

After a few weeks on Voltrex and Halscion, the vomiting of foam will hopefully resolve and you should be seeing more strength, sensation and mobility in the back end. At that point, Lumbrex should carry the day for you. Lumbrex restores normal suppleness to the spine and heals superficial cord injuries by normalizing cord circulation

Let me know if you have any more questions and good luck!

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